The Fearless Arianna Huffington

“Fearlessness is not the absence of fear. Rather, it’s the mastery of fear. It’s getting to the point where our fears do not stop us from daring to think new thoughts, try new things, take risks, fail, and start again. Fearlessness is all about getting up one more time than we fall down.” — Arianna Huffington on the web at her Huffington Post web site, Becoming Fearless.

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Andrew Keen is PoliticsCentral’s podcasting source for the present and future convergence of media, culture and technology.

You can find his previous podcasts @ AfterTV and his collected writings @ The Great Seduction.

A Production of Pajamas Media, the Best of the Blogs, and POLITICSCENTRAL.

TRANSCRIPT:
Narrator:  This is a Pajamas Media Politics Central presentation. Welcome to After TV with your host, Andrew Keen. Today on After TV, a show that maps out the future of media through interviews with the visionaries of today, Andrew speaks with Arianna Huffington about her new book On Becoming Fearless.

Andrew Keen:  Welcome to After TV, the show about technology, media, and culture. Today we are very fortunate to have Arianna Huffington, the very well-known new media impresario and author of an extremely interesting new book called On Becoming Fearless in Love, Work, and Life. Hi Arianna; thanks for appearing on After TV.

Arianna Huffington:  Thank you Andrew; it’s great to be with you.

Andrew Keen:  So your new book is all about becoming fearless; why did you write the book?

Arianna Huffington:  I wrote the book because I’m a mother with two teenage daughters and who are going through a lot of fears, and I’m also a woman who has lived through many fears and—through my life that I write about—fears of moving countries, fears of speaking out, fears of falling in love and getting divorced and parenting and aging and illness and all the fears that I address in the book. And I felt that at every moment in my life when I could move beyond my fear and not let it stop me my life was transformed. And I wanted to bring those [keys] to everyone and starting with my daughters; I wanted them to be able to lead fearless lives—by which I don’t mean life without fear. I don’t think this is possible; I think fear is in our DNA. But life where we don’t let our fear stop us—that is really what I mean by fearlessness in the book.

Andrew Keen:  What does fear feel like?

Arianna Huffington:  What is fear like?

Andrew Keen:  No; what does it feel like?

Arianna Huffington:  To be fearless?

Andrew Keen:  No; to be—what is—I’m curious as to your definition of what you think fear feels like.

Arianna Huffington:  Well fear is contraction; it feels like something that’s—makes you smaller and that makes you not track right, that makes you not believe in yourself. I think it has a lot to do with our own sense of coping, of expansion; I mean you know how if you get a piece of bad news? Suddenly you contract; you almost physically contract. And if you can expand while you are hearing the bad news you’re bigger than any set of bad news. I mean when we realize that about ourselves that’s when fearlessness comes in. And when we buy into society’s conventions of what it is to be beautiful or what it is to be successful or what kind of life matters that’s when we contract and we become smaller and less able to deal with whatever life brings us.

Andrew Keen:  I’m particularly interested in your own, I guess self-analysis of your political journey in terms of this idea of fear and fearlessness, because I think your own narrative is particularly interesting in your shift from being a well-known—as when you were younger you were a fairly vocal conservative and now you’re a very vocal liberal or progressive.

Arianna Huffington:  Yes; I was never a social conservative. I was a moderate Republican which is a kind of an extinct species practically. I was in favor always of choice and gun control and gay rights and my main shift was in the role of government. And during my Republican years I really believed that the private sector was going to step up to the plate and address a lot of the major social problems we are facing. And I saw first-hand that this wasn’t happening and that was what led to my transformation. And again I write about that in the book because there were fears involved in that, fears of losing friends, which I did, fears of speaking out and being both attacked by my former friends and received with suspicion by new friends [Laughs], which now over ten years almost since the transformation—so it’s been a long time—and the suspicion is gone, and I don’t mean my own friends, but at the time it was a very fear-filled decision. But what I’m saying in that book is that when every time we make a decision and take action, despite our fears it’s like we’re building a [muscle]. And it’s easier to do it next time and the more we exercise that fearlessness [muscle] the more available it is to us and the more able we are to take grief.

Andrew Keen:  And I guess the biggest challenge in some sense is even understanding the—what you call the restrictiveness is fear and then fighting it internally.

Arianna Huffington:  Yes; and it’s almost like embracing it instead of fighting it and moving beyond it, basically not letting it run the show. And that’s for me the distinction—acknowledging it and moving beyond it. And a lot of women, including actresses, in the book talk about the fear energy that they use as a performance energy; and that’s something else that is a key that can help us overcome our contraction when we’re afraid. Because you know when we are—when we wake up in the morning our heads are so-often filled with a negative set of thoughts. And what I mean by that is you—have you ever walked up and looked at yourself in the mirror and started criticizing yourself, like look at these wrinkles on my eyes or put on a pair of pants and start criticizing yourself for not being able to zip them up as easily? It’s almost as though you have like a terrible roommate in your head who is full of criticism and judgment and you are living with her or him 24-hours a day. So being able to deal with that part in us—that sort of sabotages our efforts, it’s the critic and the judge—the way to move beyond our fear.

Andrew Keen:  Your book seems to have a—quite a strong—excuse me here if I’m getting myself into trouble—a strong female dimension. You also have some other writers in the book who contribute in some way who are also female. Is there something very female about this book or does it cross genders?

Arianna Huffington:  Well it definitely crosses genders and a lot of men who have read the pre-publication copies that are out there are booksellers, are famous people let’s say like [Will Brown], the Publisher of the book has said that they got a lot out of it. But the book has also a gender specific message because some of the fears are specific to women. Many fears are not specific to women obviously and also every man has women in his life you know whether it’s the mother or daughters or wife or girlfriend. And—but these gender specific fears that I’m addressing say in the Work chapter or the Leadership and Speaking Out chapter have to do with the way our society stereotypes women on authority or ambition or brace themselves without hesitation. Marlo Thomas is quoted in the book saying to be ruthless, if you’re a man you have to be John McCarthy; if you’re a woman you just have to put somebody on hold.

Andrew Keen:  Right. [Laughs] It’s hard to ever imagine you as being fearful. Your life is so unusual; I’m always—I mean I don’t know you but I’ve always been very intrigued by the story of you coming as a young woman to England and really taking over one of the oldest universities and your intellectual success. I mean have you really experienced fear like most people in your life?

Arianna Huffington:  Well I feel, as I say in the book, that my mother was very, very responsible for what has happened in my life in many, many ways and the book is dedicated to her as well as to my two daughters and my partner to [having to part] which is the site that I launched in my 50s which is at the side that I launched in my 50s which is at the moment of the launching, a particular part of the site on fearlessness like a fearlessness contained, so if your listeners go to having a [inaudible] and at the beginning of September we’re now in a better phase; they’ll be able to go to the fearlessness section and contribute their own stories and get fearlessness tapes and we’ll start this kind of fearlessness community. You have to start a fearlessness epidemic basically. [Laugh]

Andrew Keen: But coming back to your life, I mean have you had moments—and obviously people need to read the book—where you have been particularly fearful and you’ve had to fight that?

Arianna Huffington:  Oh absolutely many, many times that I write about in the book and like let’s take an example of when I started speaking—public speaking is something which is incredibly a big part of my life now. I love it; I love it more than writing; I love the direct communication and it is really important to me to know that even though when I started speaking I was terrified, you know. I can’t breathe when I was speaking at the Cambridge [Union]; it was a debating society. And that has produced many great politicians in England. And when I first got up to speak every word was written on a card; I had to memorize it and I was—my head was spinning with fear. You know they say that fear of public speaking is the number one fear ahead of death if you can believe it. And so all that was something which I could never imagine would disappear and now I genuinely enjoy public speaking. I have an excitement before I speak but I have no fear. And I really believe that if somebody like me and—who was absolutely terrified of speaking [Laughs] and who also was speaking in a foreign language and with a heavy accent, even heavier than it is now can overcome that fear anybody can.

Andrew Keen:  I think you bring a very fresh voice to American politics and having read your book I’m particularly interested on your take on fearfulness or the lack of fear in American politics because it seems like this is one area where everybody or most people at least are constricted.

Arianna Huffington:  Well I actually believe that the place of fear in American politics is incredibly significant and that a lot of politicians are terrified of losing. And as a result they don’t take the bold decisions that make a leader. And that’s what I think is incredibly significant. If you’re afraid of losing then the chances are you’re not really going to be a leader. If you’re passionate about what you believe and you’re willing to stand up for it, even if you lose that’s the way to be a leader.

Andrew Keen:  But in this culture which prides itself I think quite rightly on risk-taking, entrepreneurial life, and sports and public speaking what is it about politics that either creates this fearfulness or attracts classically fearful people?

Arianna Huffington:  Well maybe there are people who are attracted to politics and barely identified with being successful in politics because of their very identities about their jobs as opposed to politics being just one way to express themselves and achieve change. And you know that—you know being an elected official is by no means the best way to achieve change.

Andrew Keen:  Are there—do you see any sort of left-right distinctions between those who are—who are and aren’t fearful or does it cover both sides of the political spectrum?

Arianna Huffington: I don’t really think it’s the left-right thing. I think for example that Chuck Hagel who is one of the major Republican leaders to come out against the War and speak straight to the American people has been a great fearless leader and he’s taking on his own Party. And Ned Lamont has been another fearless leader taking on his own Party in Connecticut, so I think it’s more of an individual, personal, and—decision rather than something that only exists in one part of the political spectrum rather than another.

Andrew Keen:  Well what do you think needs to change in American political life to make our leaders less fearful, more willing to take risks, so that we can generate more Hagel(s), more Lamont(s)?

Arianna Huffington:  Well you know it is really amazing that we are so afraid of not being in a certain kind of job; I think that is really an inner-state as though we are defined by being a Congressman or a Senator or a member of the Cabinet and our other identity is non-existent independently of that.

Andrew Keen:  And I need to ask you this, Arianna; I’ve been dying to ask you actually. What about George Bush and his crowd and his policies; is there something specifically fearful about them?

Arianna Huffington:  Well 09/11 obviously was a moment when a lot of fear was legitimately unleashed in this country. So it was a moment of incredible opportunity to bring the country together and use that energy to—for a great collective for [power]; it could have been energy independence, it could have been helping those in need—left behind. Primarily that was kind of impulse in the country—to do something big and people were willing to sacrifice to make this country safer in every possible way. Well unfortunately that energy was squandered and fear was used instead to cloud people’s minds, to make them go along with what I believe turned out to be a very tragic decision of [the state in] Iraq. So there was obviously a very legitimate expression and unleashing of fear after this country was attacked and in such a horrific way and—. But I believe that—that fear could have been used and—in a way that would have moved this country forward instead of being used to make people so afraid that they were not thinking straight about what was right for the country.

Andrew Keen:  It seems like many—many politicians who use the fearful card are themselves fearful. Do you think that’s fair or do you think that they really are quite mercenary in their use of this to just sort of terrify people?

Arianna Huffington:  Well we would have to talk about individual examples; it’s so hard to psychoanalyze people [Laughs] without being specific about who we are talking about.

Andrew Keen:  Well just George Bush for example; do you think that he is a fearful person in the context of your ideas?

Arianna Huffington:  You know I talk so much about politics and for me this book is not about politics because I believe there is a very important part in all of our lives even in the life of somebody as obsessed with politics as I am [Laughs] for things that are not about politics. And that’s what I wanted to be talking about and—around this book because it’s very important to me to recognize how—whether we’re Republicans or Democrats or for the War or against the War and there are fears in our lives—in our personal lives, in our work lives, and as we’re approaching death or facing in this that are overcome(able)—that we can actually transcend and be able to lead fulfilling lives both at the personal level and when it comes to changing the world, because the final chapter in the book is Fearlessness in Changing the Word, because I really believe that in the end every life is much more fulfilling and much happier if it can include a component that is not about ourselves—that is not about our own preoccupations and our own needs, but includes others whether it’s another person in our community or whether it is the entire country or the entire world. And what I’m finding by talking to a lot of women, many of whom are in the book, is that the women who I’ve interviewed who are engaged in something larger than themselves find it easier to become fearless. There is something about being passionate about a cause and—that makes you stand up and speak out and get involved and take risks even if you’re afraid.

Andrew Keen:  You’ve been fairly critical of mainstream media. Is there a role that conventional media plays in this culture of fearfulness do you think?

Arianna Huffington:  Oh absolutely; the way that certain stories are played again and again and again or even the way that our energy [inaudible] makes a mistake and gets addicted to some of the stories that’s dominating the media life. Like recently we’ve had the story of the capture of the alleged killer of Jon Benet Ramsey and the media went into a frenzy. And now that in itself was not a fear inducing story but it—but any time I think we take our energy and our time which are the most important things we have and waste them in things which are not either productive or fun or recharging and it’s harder for us to deal with our fears. I talk a lot in the book for example about sleep deprivation. I mean I’d rather be sleeping than watching another story on the alleged killer of Jon Benet Ramsey. And if I’m getting enough sleep I’m going to be stronger and more able to deal with whatever fears come up in me and then if I’m tired, you know if we are tired we are more likely to be fearful.

Andrew Keen:  Are you then pretty optimistic that the digital media revolution, the emergency of the Blog-isphere represents a positive development in this context?

Arianna Huffington:  Well I think it represents an incredibly positive development; in a very specific way our fearlessness campaign would not have been possible and without danger and certainly not with the speed and the ability to connect people that we are—and what we are hoping to see when we launch this campaign at the beginning of September. And in a larger way if it’s connected it’s easier for the truth to surface and because there are just a lot of voices there dedicated to finding the truth and making it public. And also we are seeing again and again how people are feeling less disconnected and less isolated and isolation is another cause of fear.

Andrew Keen:  Is the Huffington Post then fearless in manifold ways; I mean what is it about the Huffington Post that makes it less fearful than other typical or traditional medial outlets?

Arianna Huffington:  We are definitely willing to take on whoever we believe is not serving in our opinion the best interest of the country whether they’re on—the left or the right—in fact we are challenging those very distinctions on the Huffington Post. We believe that a lot of the big decisions of our time including the War in Iraq cannot be clearly seen through those left-right divisions. I mean you have, as I mentioned earlier, many prominent Republican leaders who are speaking out against the War. And you have many prominent Democratic leaders defending it. So—corporate corruption is another issue; the drug war is another issue where the red state-blue state divisions are not clear.

Andrew Keen:  Did you have a model for the Post when you founded it as sort of a paragon of truth telling—perhaps a historic newspaper or news sheets of some type?

Arianna Huffington:  No, not really because what we are creating was new; I mean the technology was necessary to make it happen and the technology did not exist many, many years ago. So the site was we wanted to bring together a 24/7 news with 24/7 opinion by both established voices like Arthur Schlesinger and Walter Cronkite and new Bloggers whom nobody had heard of before but with really interesting important takes on what was happening. It was really I believe to get the best of the old and the best of the new and using the new technology to make it available to millions of people. And we see as our traffic grows and as we’re expanding into new areas that we’re getting more and more young people which we’re really excited about and who start to get their news and—online and that’s why we’re expanding into the politics aside as we are calling it—part of the site and which acknowledges that even our community which is very politically motivated has other needs and other interests.

Andrew Keen:  I know you just closed some venture capital money for the Huffington Post; so where would you like the site or the publication to be in say five years?

Arianna Huffington:  The great thing about what we’re doing is that there are no limits to our imagination, you know. We are launching the part of the site that is going to be about everything except politics you know—relationships, foods, sex, hiking, sports—every other expression of our lives and at the same time we are going to be launching a new site that’s going to be a political satire site. And we really have no—absolutely no limit to what we can imagine for the site.

Andrew Keen:  But what will it—I mean I guess it’s so—it’s—if you’re saying it’s so new it would be hard to compare it but what will it look like? Will it be a Blogger’s site, an interactive site, a major portal, or a combination of all those things?

Arianna Huffington:  Well we are talking among ourselves about it being a [News 2.0] you know—a way to receive news and also produce consumer generated content around news and around opinion and that will be interactive—that will be constantly refreshed and that will involve voices both from the old world, the old culture and new voices. I mean that’s—you know one of the things that we set out to do from the beginning is not to exclude people who barely have computers. I mean if they have interesting things to say we are not going to let the technology get in the way; we will take their interesting things anyway they want to send them to us—by fax, by dictation, by carrier pigeon—it doesn’t matter. I know there are some purists who are say it’s not a blog if it’s not done on [movable] type but we don’t believe that. What we want is to be an aggregator of really important, interesting, fun voices.

Andrew Keen:  So an aggregator of diverse voices?

Arianna Huffington:  Yes; absolutely.

Andrew Keen:  What about you in terms of overcoming fears; do you still have fears that you would like to overcome?

Arianna Huffington:  Oh absolutely; my main fears at the moment are around my children. And when you’re a parent it’s a pretty fearful [inaudible] and I’m constantly working to transcend it. I mean last night for example I was out to dinner and my dinner and her friend were at the pier since the morning and I couldn’t reach them and their cell phones were not working, it was getting dark and I had to deal with my imagination thinking the worst and calling everyone I knew you know—the girlfriend’s mother, everybody in my house and really having to stop myself from getting in my car and driving to the pier. [Laughs] And then the sense of relief when my daughter called me and she was already at home and had no idea why [Laughs]—.

Andrew Keen:  But would we ever want to overcome our fear about kids? I mean isn’t that part of just being a loving parent?

Arianna Huffington:  Yes; but it’s a way of how we deal with our fears, you know. We let our fears destroy our parenting or destroy our relationship with our children. And then obviously that’s very detrimental and I talk a lot about that in the Parenting chapter when I had a lot of mothers talk about this experience and it’s again something which—if people can observe ourselves moving into fear as I did last night; it makes it easier to deal with it. It makes—if we don’t let it take us over and consume us and we can keep a part of us observing our fears that’s the first step. When you—when I think of [keys] for fearlessness one of the first ones is have an observer in you so you can observe the fear, because if the fear takes you over completely it’s much harder to transcend it.

Andrew Keen:  And presumably as your daughters get older it—the fear of—the fear as a parent will come less full-time; we spend less time with them as they become parents themselves?

Arianna Huffington: Oh absolutely. I mean I think they do lessen but they never disappear. [Laughs]

Andrew Keen:  Do you fear old age?

Arianna Huffington:  No, no; I write a lot about that. I’m 56; I don’t fear old age. I welcome it; I believe it brings a [inaudible-audio blank] and it brings a sense of perspective; we seem to be fearless as we are getting older; you are clear about what matters and what doesn’t. And part of it is [I’m Greek] where all day—just kind of [revere] and I had a fearless old mother who died six years ago, so I had a great role model of how to age gracefully and stay engaged and—anyway, age is a new [inaudible]. [Laughs]

Andrew Keen:  Did—do—would you fear anonymity, I mean if people stop listening to you?

Arianna Huffington:  Oh not at all; no, no that is not something I’ve ever considered. I just love doing what I’m doing and I’ve been very blessed in my life and I constantly try to deal with my own fears so that both become more effective and also have more happiness and peace in my own life. I just think it’s so much—unfortunately Mary is here and I have to leave.

Andrew Keen:  Thank you so much Arianna for a fascinating conversation and we’ll look forward to having you on After TV again in the not to distant future.

Arianna Huffington:  Thank you very much.

Narrator:  Thanks for listening to After TV, which is hosted and distributed by www.pajamasmedia.com, featuring music by Unity, an artist licensed by Creative Commons. Hope you can join us again.